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	<title>Comments on: Real SEO: Means Not Scamming Clients</title>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-1148</guid>
		<description>Good article and for the most part I agree but I think it is slightly wide of the mark. Monthly fees are not just about SEO - they&#039;re about performance, ramp to conversion and ROI. I don&#039;t agree at all that results are not measureable. Any ethical SEO company will perform &quot;process engineering&quot; to obtain results and by results I don&#039;t just mean position - I mean conversion. This is a skill 95% of SEOs can&#039;t perform hence the negative press about fees.

We are highly skilled, consider ourselves as ethical and we&#039;re totally up front about our fees. We give professional advice, produce good results and charge monthly fees ONLY if we think it will benefit the client. We DON&#039;T employ cheap labour and we DON&#039;T charge monthly fees where they&#039;re not neccessary. For example, a brochure website in a non selling low competition marketplace - we optimise the site taking it to the clients desired level then leave them to manage it inhouse afterwards. No monthly fees neccessary.  

I disagree with &quot;Affordable SEO Services&quot; about fees relating to Algo changes. We have many sites that have never had a code change in years but still remain on page 1 for their key phrases. No one knows when or what the algo changes are so I&#039;m puzzled by this.

I agree totally with John above about these &quot;super SEOs&quot; charging clients £1000s whilst farming it out to India for £100 a month. This IS a rip off. We know of one large SEO company who were charging their clients big monthly fees but they never ranked above a similar site we optimised. We never charged our client more than a few hundred pounds a month and obtained better results. Needless to say the other client approached us in the end but we couldn&#039;t take them on as it would conflict with our existing client.

Depending on the project we charge monthly fees accordingly. Most small business sites we only ever charge a few hundred every now and again for metrics evaluation or landing page adjustments - ie something that will benefit the client. If a new page is not doing well then we charge around £5-600 for A/B testing and this has never been an issue for any client because we get them new business and sales. We also have a web design depertment so we understand how a well designed and optimised page will rank as well as convert customers. 

This post paints a bad picture about monthly fees and effectively tars good SEO companies with the same brush. Agreed...when a page is optimised it&#039;s optimised BUT most ethical SEO companies are not performing SEO - they&#039;re performing &quot;internet marketing&quot; and there&#039;s a big difference. The monthly fees are justified by the ROI&#039;s and if any company spent £20k a month without seeing any ROI then I&#039;d be very surprised.

The current problems are due to the wave of new SEOs charging stupid fees who have no marketing and analytical skills or even a track record!

To understand monthly fees you need to understand the clients expectations in their marketplace then apply appropriate services that will achieve a decent ROI for the client. This applies to any company large or small.  

Take an online product store for example. Most SEOs have never heard of Google base. Google recommends uploading data feeds on a daily basis. These feeds are hand written for Atom or RSS, require skill and are very time consuming to write. Add to this PPC management, display advertising, heat mapping, conversion tracking and CPA reduction methods then it&#039;s ridiculously easy to justify fees. This is far too much work for most companies to do inhouse therefore the associated monthly fees are far from being a rip off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article and for the most part I agree but I think it is slightly wide of the mark. Monthly fees are not just about SEO &#8211; they&#8217;re about performance, ramp to conversion and ROI. I don&#8217;t agree at all that results are not measureable. Any ethical SEO company will perform &#8220;process engineering&#8221; to obtain results and by results I don&#8217;t just mean position &#8211; I mean conversion. This is a skill 95% of SEOs can&#8217;t perform hence the negative press about fees.</p>
<p>We are highly skilled, consider ourselves as ethical and we&#8217;re totally up front about our fees. We give professional advice, produce good results and charge monthly fees ONLY if we think it will benefit the client. We DON&#8217;T employ cheap labour and we DON&#8217;T charge monthly fees where they&#8217;re not neccessary. For example, a brochure website in a non selling low competition marketplace &#8211; we optimise the site taking it to the clients desired level then leave them to manage it inhouse afterwards. No monthly fees neccessary.  </p>
<p>I disagree with &#8220;Affordable SEO Services&#8221; about fees relating to Algo changes. We have many sites that have never had a code change in years but still remain on page 1 for their key phrases. No one knows when or what the algo changes are so I&#8217;m puzzled by this.</p>
<p>I agree totally with John above about these &#8220;super SEOs&#8221; charging clients £1000s whilst farming it out to India for £100 a month. This IS a rip off. We know of one large SEO company who were charging their clients big monthly fees but they never ranked above a similar site we optimised. We never charged our client more than a few hundred pounds a month and obtained better results. Needless to say the other client approached us in the end but we couldn&#8217;t take them on as it would conflict with our existing client.</p>
<p>Depending on the project we charge monthly fees accordingly. Most small business sites we only ever charge a few hundred every now and again for metrics evaluation or landing page adjustments &#8211; ie something that will benefit the client. If a new page is not doing well then we charge around £5-600 for A/B testing and this has never been an issue for any client because we get them new business and sales. We also have a web design depertment so we understand how a well designed and optimised page will rank as well as convert customers. </p>
<p>This post paints a bad picture about monthly fees and effectively tars good SEO companies with the same brush. Agreed&#8230;when a page is optimised it&#8217;s optimised BUT most ethical SEO companies are not performing SEO &#8211; they&#8217;re performing &#8220;internet marketing&#8221; and there&#8217;s a big difference. The monthly fees are justified by the ROI&#8217;s and if any company spent £20k a month without seeing any ROI then I&#8217;d be very surprised.</p>
<p>The current problems are due to the wave of new SEOs charging stupid fees who have no marketing and analytical skills or even a track record!</p>
<p>To understand monthly fees you need to understand the clients expectations in their marketplace then apply appropriate services that will achieve a decent ROI for the client. This applies to any company large or small.  </p>
<p>Take an online product store for example. Most SEOs have never heard of Google base. Google recommends uploading data feeds on a daily basis. These feeds are hand written for Atom or RSS, require skill and are very time consuming to write. Add to this PPC management, display advertising, heat mapping, conversion tracking and CPA reduction methods then it&#8217;s ridiculously easy to justify fees. This is far too much work for most companies to do inhouse therefore the associated monthly fees are far from being a rip off.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-919</guid>
		<description>Great points! Companies are all too often promising the world and delivering rotten cheese.  The best advice you can offer someone buying SEO is don&#039;t believe it if it sounds too good to be true.

Edited by Admin: Please don&#039;t put spammy keyphrases instead of your name, incase you hadn&#039;t noticed, this blog is nofollow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points! Companies are all too often promising the world and delivering rotten cheese.  The best advice you can offer someone buying SEO is don&#8217;t believe it if it sounds too good to be true.</p>
<p>Edited by Admin: Please don&#8217;t put spammy keyphrases instead of your name, incase you hadn&#8217;t noticed, this blog is nofollow.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 Ways To Tell You&#8217;re With A Deadbeat SEO Company &#124; Featured</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator>5 Ways To Tell You&#8217;re With A Deadbeat SEO Company &#124; Featured</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-813</guid>
		<description>[...] talked before about particularly poor practices in the SEO industry, and it probably won&#8217;t come as a surprise to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] talked before about particularly poor practices in the SEO industry, and it probably won&#8217;t come as a surprise to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-715</guid>
		<description>Hi Steve,

Thanks for the comment! This was in many ways my own rant on the SEO industry the way yours was with regards to everyone being a designer that I commented on. 

I agree with you that it&#039;s important to work with a company which you know and trust, but even then it&#039;s worth knowing exactly what you&#039;re paying for because a lot of SEO companies out there are content in their own minds that what they are doing is fair but morally they are simply ripping people off. 

Just in the last month I&#039;ve come across two VERY reputable SEO companies who are outsourcing non-specialist work for £100 a month and charging over £1000 a month. To me that falls so far outside business ethics that it borders on extortion.. some people might say that makes me a bad businessman, but I don&#039;t believe in overcharging people for work just because they don&#039;t understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment! This was in many ways my own rant on the SEO industry the way yours was with regards to everyone being a designer that I commented on. </p>
<p>I agree with you that it&#8217;s important to work with a company which you know and trust, but even then it&#8217;s worth knowing exactly what you&#8217;re paying for because a lot of SEO companies out there are content in their own minds that what they are doing is fair but morally they are simply ripping people off. </p>
<p>Just in the last month I&#8217;ve come across two VERY reputable SEO companies who are outsourcing non-specialist work for £100 a month and charging over £1000 a month. To me that falls so far outside business ethics that it borders on extortion.. some people might say that makes me a bad businessman, but I don&#8217;t believe in overcharging people for work just because they don&#8217;t understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve - Eightyone Design</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-713</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve - Eightyone Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-713</guid>
		<description>Hi John,

A very interesting article. We seem to get an email at least once a week from a so called &#039;SEO Expert&#039; who claims they can get you on the front page of google within seven days and other ridiculous claims. We have used a very reputable company who carry out all the SEO and online marketing for a company I used to work for and they are very honast and open about what they do and what you are paying for. I think it is best to use a company you have had recommended to you rather than choosing one of the many SEO companies that are cropping up.

Like the design world, it seems that the SEO industry is suffering from too many start ups coming in and under pricing the more established and professional companies that are out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>A very interesting article. We seem to get an email at least once a week from a so called &#8216;SEO Expert&#8217; who claims they can get you on the front page of google within seven days and other ridiculous claims. We have used a very reputable company who carry out all the SEO and online marketing for a company I used to work for and they are very honast and open about what they do and what you are paying for. I think it is best to use a company you have had recommended to you rather than choosing one of the many SEO companies that are cropping up.</p>
<p>Like the design world, it seems that the SEO industry is suffering from too many start ups coming in and under pricing the more established and professional companies that are out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Goldstein Online &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-19</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Goldstein Online &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-652</guid>
		<description>[...] Real SEO: Means Not Scamming Clients &#124; Real SEO (tags: seo) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Real SEO: Means Not Scamming Clients | Real SEO (tags: seo) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sethgoldstein (Seth Goldstein)</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-1280</link>
		<dc:creator>sethgoldstein (Seth Goldstein)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-1280</guid>
		<description>Real SEO: Means Not Scamming Clients &#124; Real SEO http://tinyurl.com/4fqsy7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real SEO: Means Not Scamming Clients | Real SEO <a href="http://tinyurl.com/4fqsy7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/4fqsy7</a></p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-490</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-490</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, even if you did choose to spam me rather than writing your name ;) 
And people wonder why I keep this blog on rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;?

As for the rest, I have witnessed in more ways than one the actions of several large reputable SEO firms and I speak from experience, sure not all companies are the same and there are some great ones out there - but in my opinion the vast majority like to pull the wool over their clients&#039; eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, even if you did choose to spam me rather than writing your name ;)<br />
And people wonder why I keep this blog on rel=&#8221;nofollow&#8221;?</p>
<p>As for the rest, I have witnessed in more ways than one the actions of several large reputable SEO firms and I speak from experience, sure not all companies are the same and there are some great ones out there &#8211; but in my opinion the vast majority like to pull the wool over their clients&#8217; eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Affordable SEO Services</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-485</link>
		<dc:creator>Affordable SEO Services</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-485</guid>
		<description>Well SEO is not just about ripping clients off... nor is it just a waste of time after the initial consultation...
the &quot; maintenance &quot; doesn&#039;t involve only commenting on blogs ... but a lot more is done to make the site more visible over the internet...
And again, this maintenance is definitely necessary because the rankings can never stay constant .. not just because your competitors are doing it too ... but also because the algorithms of search engines are revised regularly...
so keeping touch with all these and staying updated is not easy... and hence the professionals have a good demand these days.
As for the ripping off... i agree some people overcharge and don&#039;t even work ... so for that it&#039;s just that you need to choose your agency wisely.. and fix a budget before hand...
SEO services aren&#039;t that bad after all ... and they can be really cheap as well as effective at the same time.

But i loved your article nonetheless... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well SEO is not just about ripping clients off&#8230; nor is it just a waste of time after the initial consultation&#8230;<br />
the &#8221; maintenance &#8221; doesn&#8217;t involve only commenting on blogs &#8230; but a lot more is done to make the site more visible over the internet&#8230;<br />
And again, this maintenance is definitely necessary because the rankings can never stay constant .. not just because your competitors are doing it too &#8230; but also because the algorithms of search engines are revised regularly&#8230;<br />
so keeping touch with all these and staying updated is not easy&#8230; and hence the professionals have a good demand these days.<br />
As for the ripping off&#8230; i agree some people overcharge and don&#8217;t even work &#8230; so for that it&#8217;s just that you need to choose your agency wisely.. and fix a budget before hand&#8230;<br />
SEO services aren&#8217;t that bad after all &#8230; and they can be really cheap as well as effective at the same time.</p>
<p>But i loved your article nonetheless&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-478</guid>
		<description>Hello mate, thanks for commenting! I completely agree with you, it really is a bit of a shambles at times. What&#039;s worse is when you have a client come to who has already had an existing SEO company work on their site, and spent thousands of pounds, only for me to have to tell them that the company in question haven&#039;t actually done very much of anything...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello mate, thanks for commenting! I completely agree with you, it really is a bit of a shambles at times. What&#8217;s worse is when you have a client come to who has already had an existing SEO company work on their site, and spent thousands of pounds, only for me to have to tell them that the company in question haven&#8217;t actually done very much of anything&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Quimp</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>Quimp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 05:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-477</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s an ugly market in a way. As ugly as most of the SEO companies&#039; source code. Now that&#039;s not too beautiful! As a web developer, I can detect these SEO scams... but when I think of all the people who aren&#039;t aware, it&#039;s a tough one to swallow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s an ugly market in a way. As ugly as most of the SEO companies&#8217; source code. Now that&#8217;s not too beautiful! As a web developer, I can detect these SEO scams&#8230; but when I think of all the people who aren&#8217;t aware, it&#8217;s a tough one to swallow.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.eggrage.co.uk/real-seo-means-not-scamming-clients/comment-page-1/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eggrage.co.uk/?p=57#comment-475</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Palapple Blog &#124; SEO Solutions for your Business...&lt;/strong&gt;

Thanks for sharing. Search engine optimization is indeed one of the most crucial areas in Internet marketing, it is a perfect bridge between technology and business....

edited by eggrage: please don’t spam my blog, your name has been changed from promotional spam to ‘anonymous’</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Palapple Blog | SEO Solutions for your Business&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Thanks for sharing. Search engine optimization is indeed one of the most crucial areas in Internet marketing, it is a perfect bridge between technology and business&#8230;.</p>
<p>edited by eggrage: please don’t spam my blog, your name has been changed from promotional spam to ‘anonymous’</p>
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